TealPanda Fest

A case study in regenerative principles in practice at a local outdoor music & arts festival.

TealPanda set out to create good vibes, support musicians and artists and local vendors, and minimize their ecological footprint. We present a holistic overview of this outdoor festival and a case study on regenerative waste management for events (read: composting).
We talked to Darren Goldberg, one of the organizers of TealPanda Fest, and Kelsea Jacobsen, Environmental Educator at the Solana Center for Environmental Innovation, who collaborated on waste management for the festival. Our conversations with them are below.

About the Festival

Teal Panda Fest was held June 11-13, 2021 at the Sweetwater Ranch just outside of Jamul, CA, a short 45 minute drive from downtown San Diego. The festival safely brought 250+ people together for a weekend of camping, music, art, games, yoga and creativity in an optimal mountain setting. A return to the good life!

TealPanda Sweetwater Ranch
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Caption: Pictures from the festival (taken from Instagram). Grassy field and stage in front of a mountain. Performer dancing on stage. Two smiling women in hats with fresh coconuts. Band performing on stage. Large group under a shade cloth on lawn. Artist painting rainbow pandas on tiles. Panda mascot on seesaw. People meditating on yoga mats. Band performing at night with large crowd.  On the right: festival poster for TealPanda - camping, music, art, games, yoga - June 11-13, 2021 with artist lineup, colored in teal.

Waste Management at the Festival

The Solana Center for Environmental Innovation collaborated with TealPanda Fest on the waste management of the festival, including composting, recycling, trash, and providing educational resources for the festival attendees. 

NSD:

Okay, I think we're recording now. Are you have you been busy but actually got a little vacation last week and Idaho, so that's nice. So, so thanks for taking the call with me. Basically, I've heard about what happened with Silvana Center during the waste management at TealPanda, and just heard from a few people who attended that it was a huge success and it sounded like from Salado center they were really stoked about it. And so I just thought there was like an opportunity to kind of share that story with the community. And I am by no means a professional writer, but with what I do with Nexen ego which is like a community online based community for San Diego regenerative business minded people. I just thought it would be a good place to put that on the website and just kind of share, you know like a local project.

 

Darren Goldberg 

Oh, I have no problem with that all sounds good to me.

 

Isabel Wen 

Oh, so I'm gonna keep it super open ended, like, whatever you want to share about TealPanda and like how, like, putting it together and like the regenerative piece even like, what did that mean for you and like how that came in.

 

Darren Goldberg 

I mean, you know the regenerate pieces is, I mean a lot of a lot of that came, you know, came from, from Laurel and stellar CO as well. I mean, it's something that is important to me and I think when you have an event, you're making an impact so I try to minimize your impact is important. Right. You know I've always felt that, you can leave things as you found them, whether it's your camping or just anything you're doing in life, you're walking around. I think that's, that's an important factor. Fortunately I had people and friends and partners that can help me, you know, kind of activate that and with the introduction to the salon center. So, you know, I can't really take full credit for that actually happening but I know that that was a piece that I wanted to have involved, And I was fortunate enough to be made that interaction and have them help, kind of, execute that aspect of it. So, you know, I think. I think that's it's a must, really. And I think you're seeing that in events too that it's it's a must that people are realizing that at least in California or wherever, but. But yeah, but I just knew that that's you know as a piece that I wanted to have. And it was great having them and I wish the educational piece could have been a little bit more a part of it but part of that could have been scheduling and other things. But for sheer venue to kind of work those things out.

 

Isabel Wen 

How did you I guess for the recording, like how did you get in touch with Laurel.

 

Darren Goldberg 

I mean I've known Laurel for over 10 years, really. So we both went to USD together. And she's, she's obviously been involved in environmental, environmental work permitting services that kind of thing. And I believe that this law center was just someone she either worked with in the past or just a connection through her permitting process with her other job. And she just kind of mentioned it to me. When we were talking about planning and the different aspects of the festival that, you know, they can be. They can be a potential partner in the whole event.

 

Isabel Wen 

Okay. So, I mean waste aspect waste is one aspect of the regenerative piece and I think kind of the way you described it of like Leave No Trace is kind of more sustainability side. And so I'm kind of curious like, what other aspects moral kind of pushed for in terms of regenerative which is, I guess the mantra is more like leave it better than you found it.

 

Darren Goldberg 

I, you know, I'm not, I mean, I guess, leaving it better than. Then we found it would be that you know we put the compost back into the farm that was the land where we had the festival, and him being able to, you know, accept that composted and use growing his, his vegetables and the things that he grows out there that would kind of any regenerative piece.

 

Isabel Wen 

Yeah, and like, I guess I'll also kind of dive in a little bit deeper in the regenerative sites that like it's not just the physical element or like the resource element but also how you interact with the people who I mean, assuming I took a lot of people to put this together, and so I'm just kind of curious like where you see that fitting in with that side of things. I'm sorry I'm not exactly sure what you mean. Yeah. This is something I always struggle with too because regenerative is a philosophy and not a set of roles but. So like for example, a non regenerative way of working with the volunteers is they just kind of help and they're kind of like mundane tasks and then when the event ends they just kind of go and you part ways, but like, maybe, maybe what I envision a more regenerative interaction with volunteers is like, this is something that really excites them, they're learning something and they're, you know, the more of the mindset that they're helping all of you are collectively helping to build something that otherwise wouldn't have existed, and basically everyone is walking away with some sort of either sense of fulfillment or new knowledge gained or, you know, creative outlet or just something was created.

 

Darren Goldberg 

Well, I mean, you know, I guess, I guess that side of it would have been the kind of workshop and the information that's on the center was providing and that we had available to to the patrons that, you know, as much as possible, I would hope that they would take advantage of and learn, you know about those practices, and hopefully that they did and they spoke to those people, or someone that you know too, so that then they could carry that practice on into their daily lives or their events or something like that. So that's kind of, you know, was the goal with the educational piece is that you go to the music festival but you also pick up a piece of knowledge. You know about, about that, along the way.

 

Isabel Wen 

Yeah, and like, and I, maybe I'll add to that, in talking to you before that, putting together the festival, the intent wasn't, like, necessarily, to make money, and I think you're probably losing money in the first year, but the main purpose or the reason why you're doing it is to do something fun for the community.

 

Darren Goldberg 

Yeah, I mean, absolutely. And that was definitely the reason for it. We're coming out of a dark period people needed some, some light and, and, you know events. Events can do that. And music can do that and art can do that learning can do all of those things, especially in a group setting when you haven't been around groups a long time, so I mean that's really, you know we're the idea to do it was born out of. And, you know it's it's an investment in in a brand investment in the community and investment and musicians and artists, and that kind of thing. I mean that's that's always how I see it, I think that's, you have to look at it, if you're wanting to make money on it. You know, that's, yeah, I mean, I knew you know I've done this, I've done events before I understand what you know how can take time and effort and stuff to grow it to get to where you may actually making sustainable money not just money on a one year thing because you can cut a lot of corners and this and that to make a few bucks but then I won't last. It's not, it's not going to carry on in the future or make a real impact or, or create a brand that people want to associate with. So, you know, I saw the whole thing as an investment in that, in my brand and everything goes into that while you're presenting those people is, is what is a reflection on your brand, whether it's from recycling, composting to the bands or to the artists or the little nuances of anything that you can do that, to make their experience a good one. You know, I mean, you want them to walk away with a high satisfaction level. And that's, that's only going to come from the effort that you put in, not thinking about necessarily the bottom line the whole thing. financially.

 

Isabel Wen 

Yeah. And so maybe let's take two steps back. What is TealPanda festival.

 

Darren Goldberg 

I mean, it's a music, art and community festival, and camping. I mean that's basically what it is. And yeah honestly I wish you know I don't know if you're looking for deeper meaning or deeper answer to that but that's, that's really what it is and I think those, those are important things to have in your life because they give you boost, they give you reason to keep moving forward, to keep you going and things to look forward to. And that's really important.

 

Isabel Wen 

Yeah. Like 100% Like I saw I started seeing a therapist during the pandemic, and one of the things in talking to her, that came out, you know, self reflections was like, I kind of was in like a dark place or funk, for like the first half of the year and lately not feeling that way just feeling a lot better and she was like, what changed and I was just thinking like, honestly, it's probably just the fact that I got vaccinated and I've been able to start seeing people again and in person and just be around other human beings.

 

Darren Goldberg 

Absolutely, take for granted, on a day to day basis before all this stuff, you know, a lot of times you don't know what you have until it goes away and, and you're gonna need that to refocus and recenter and then I mean I definitely have seen and, you know, since I got vaccinated, and things are starting to open up a different kind of appreciation for events and people and you know the concerts. we've had a show after TealPanda and I couldn't believe how many people were there and the energy and the positivity and everything like that. I think, hopefully it doesn't wear off. I'm sure it will sure it'll kind of that kind of thing happens, you know, it becomes back to commonplace but there's definitely a different sense of than or around those kinds of things right now, and that's communicating with people and being with people and doing the things that maybe we took for granted a little bit before. So, yeah, I think it was, it was all kind of born out of that idea that we all kind of needed this.

 

Isabel Wen 

Yeah. Yeah, and you had been planning this I think sometime last year too right so it's, it's, it was a long time in the planning,

 

Darren Goldberg 

not so much actually. I mean, I don't. It was about October of last year when I first stepped foot on that venue and it wasn't until January one that I decided to, you know, actually consider doing it and then it wasn't until three months later that it was all systems go because you know I thought, Hey, because of the world situation and vaccines being, you know, more readily available, I mean I was just put those dates out there and said hey, we can work towards these dates and if things trend positive, and we can do it then and not, I'm not going to do it, You know, I mean, obviously safe, well being of people that are attending I was important to me so I would never want to put people in danger but, you know, seeing that the vaccine was becoming extremely available to people that kind of gave me the confidence to go ahead and do it. So, honestly, it wasn't I really ended up planning this thing, two or three months when I couldn't use the whole year. So, it really wasn't that much time.

 

Isabel Wen 

That's really impressive. Sooner like

 

Darren Goldberg 

I was. Yeah, I mean I put a deposit down on the venue that was about it but real work, did start, I'd say March 1 You know, around, around March is when things kind of started to lift and I felt like that would be doing it in June would be acceptable. So it was, wasn't until then that it was all systems go.

 

Isabel Wen 

That's amazing Darren. And

 

Darren Goldberg 

I couldn't believe the timing and everything. I mean they're you know, still, you still haven't seen this you know shows are back in clubs or whatever but that's a whole different thing. I mean, there haven't really been there still hasn't been an event really like this yet, I don't know I mean maybe a little on smaller scales but, I mean, this wasn't a big scale but you know you're still really not seeing them and you're really not going to start thinking you know until the fall, so I do take some, some credit. Timing and pulling out pulling off in that timeframe. It happened,

 

Isabel Wen 

and how many people ended up attending

 

Darren Goldberg 

with patients and staff everything there is about 250 people there, maybe 275 math and everybody about 200 patients.

 

Isabel Wen 

And I guess for people who are, I guess I will publish the audio, people who are listening or reading this, this was in hemel California just like,

 

Darren Goldberg 

yeah, technically Yeah, outside of the kind of rural county, mountains, used to have more. Yeah. I guess it's in the Cleveland National butts up against the Cleveland National Forest. I don't know. I'd have to check with that.

 

Isabel Wen 

I remember interviewing, Kelsey from this law center she was saying at the campsite was actually an unincorporated area, and so the city was very excited to kind of work on this.

 

Darren Goldberg 

Yes, yes. Yeah, so I guess it is an increase in San Diego county but an unincorporated areas of San Diego County.

 

Isabel Wen 

Yeah. So, I mean, what was your impression like how did it go.

 

Darren Goldberg 

I thought it went really well. I mean like I said my focus was, was, people walking away with a satisfaction rate and the smiles on their faces and that really seems like what I got and everything, the response after the fact, people you know were coming up to me at last show just Oh, You're the one who put on TealPanda, and you know just how happy they were to just be there and and be experiencing that again and I'm thankful and a gratitude towards that. So to me that's 100% success. I think everything ended up going off without a hitch and you know no real, no real issues, you know, a couple of things behind the scenes, but that doesn't matter because they had no effect on the experience that people had out there and all around it's been really positive and very, very minimal if not any complaints and that was that was Michael. I feel like I achieved that I'm really happy with that.

 

Isabel Wen 

Yeah, I mean, as an event organizer myself, I gotta say that's a huge success it's like almost unheard of.

 

Darren Goldberg 

Yeah, I mean, you know, there, there might have been complaints out there that, obviously, you learn what you can build on things and, but, yeah, there weren't there weren't many and so it was just really really happy with that and seemed like smiles all around. That's the best thing we could go for, and get out of it.

 

Isabel Wen 

Yeah. And, and so what about the, the compost or the waste management side of things, what was your impression with like how that all went down and was executed or what did people think,

 

Darren Goldberg 

You know, I mean, hard to tell what people thought of it, I think, you know what we had out there is, is, is kind of what is in line with people what they're used to at events now in terms of stations like that. You know I'm happy with that. That happened and the diversion we're able to do, recycling, and the you know the amount of compost that we were able to gain out of it and then get back to the, to the landowner, but you know it's hard, it's, I don't know if I can necessarily quantify in terms of what the patrons thought a bit, but I hope they kind of have one of those things that you hope that they appreciate but might not be an outward appreciation of it. But, you know, having it there and, and knowing that it's happened maybe a little subconscious there that they feel good about that and, you know, we're able to provide that for them.

 

Isabel Wen 

Yeah. So in talking to Kelsey, she said, People felt really good about composting they felt like, you know, they're really doing something good, because there was a coconut vendor right. Yeah, yeah. And so she said when people came over, they just, you know, felt like they were doing their little part and just felt really good when they were putting into the compost bin. And she said, Absolutely. Another interesting I guess like statistic as you said at the end, there was only four bags of trash.

 

Darren Goldberg 

Yeah, there wasn't there wasn't much trash I mean it's it's cool that it can all be diverted in the right place. And that's the thing I think you we also push this back to the, to leave no trace and leave it how you found it kind of thing. You know our community of people are kind of, you've always that's always been a central theme, whether it's talked about or not, it's just like, Hey, bring less to this you know like, do what you can ahead of time, also so that when you're there you're creating less. In general, sometimes it's almost like a pre planning aspect to it as well, to help you with the reduction of waste. So I think that's kind of, you know, conscious thing, and helping promote that ahead of time as well, so that when you get out there, you're not, you know, it's already, it's already in motion before you even step foot on the day of the festival kind of thing in people's in people's brains and minds. I think that also lends itself to to the type of people that the patrons that are out there they're, you know, in our community are a little more, just in general, day to day life probably a little more in tune with that kind of thing, so that also helps me as well, because I have a higher base level to work with, you know, kind of thing, rather than you know some other crowds might be different.

 

Isabel Wen 

Yeah, totally. I mean, that's really good to hear that, you know that this is becoming more and more normal for for festivals.

 

Darren Goldberg 

Yeah, absolutely. I think it's absolutely becoming more and more, you know, and we're we're campers a lot of people are used to camping and when you camp you everything you bring out there if you go to the desert or something like everything you bring out, you gotta, you gotta leave with, you know, so you don't want to be leaving with a bunch of shit. You got to think about it a little bit more ahead of time and I think even into a more organized event. These people are still thinking that way, you know, and so that's, that's a big leg up, you know, to help us execute what we're trying to do at the festival is that there's just this mentality there, kind of a different mentality leading into it already. So,

 

Isabel Wen 

that's right. And it also reminds me like, so even for some of the decorations and installation art installations and things like that, at the site, you were also upcycling materials, is that right.

 

Darren Goldberg  

Yeah, you know, in terms of using lumber from that lumber cycle and stuff. Yeah, well, that was also help to you as well. I mean that's, that's what it comes down to I mean, I can't take credit for all this stuff, I mean I had people and partners and friends that lead me on to these things and give me these ideas to help do that. And so yeah, being able to to reuse something for a new purpose and then also even, you know, carry on till next year I mean I still have these signs in my house now for next year, or whatever. So, yeah, I mean, it kind of find different little niches and ways and different places that you can do that it's kind of add up and be exponential. Oh.

 

Isabel Wen 

Well, I can't think of any other questions asked you off top my head that are relevant to waste management. I have tons of questions about TealPanda, and so we're gonna leave it to you whether or not you want to keep this short interview or take the full hour. You let me know. Jeff asked me a couple years ago, more why I was just curious, you know, how did vide Valley go.

 

Darren Goldberg 

I think Valley went pretty well it was, it was cool because it kind of different vibes down there throughout different times of the day, you know, you go walk down there more during the day and it's just kind of hanging out, hammocks, walk down there a little later, the sound healing was happening so that was kind of a different vibe. You walk down there a little later night and there was kind of acoustic jams and, you know more people just hanging out like a kind of camping normal camping trips, kind of service this cool auxilary five to the, you know, bigger part of the festival. When I thought it worked out really well. It's cool every time I kind of went down there's a slightly different vibe and people doing slightly different things but you know I'll connect it in a way. I thought it worked out pretty well.

 

Isabel Wen 

Yeah, and for the for the audience by Bally was like, just this little quiet valley right behind the stage and that the the actual festival pretty large private grounds. So the intention was to kind of create this not only sound space but a physical space. That was kind of different from the high energy or the higher energy that was happening on the mainstage.

 

Darren Goldberg 

Absolutely, it's kind of a detachment, and I go down there to different times to detach yourself from the main kind of grounds and it's really cool to have that. That's something I would definitely coorporate one way or another, moving forward, whether on this grounds or if it's a different venue or anything like that I think kind of having set aside space to allow people to go to, for however much they want or different feelings or, you know, and some people might have gotten down there and turn right around and that's, that's fine, you know, but they might have walked down there at a different time and ended up staying for two hours kind of thing. So, yeah, it was, it's kind of it was an important feature and I thought it worked out really well.

 

Isabel Wen 

Yeah, cuz I remember. Buddy was his name was doing the sound healing. Yeah, and I remember he was testing out the didgeridoo so it would have been so cool to see that.

 

Darren Goldberg 

Yeah, he really, he really did a good job and really set up a nice little area of affair and then during the day time, upon the kind of wherever you're doing the yoga and stuff so him. It was, you know, kind of creating this space down there and, and, if you wanted that space, you could go, you could go absorb it and if you didn't. It was okay. It wasn't in your face, it was over here is this auxiliary pod that you could partake or not partake and I think that's, that's kind of cool.

 

Isabel Wen 

Yeah. And then there were also puppies, running around,

 

Darren Goldberg 

there were puppies. It was, that was you know, obviously unexpected thing I mean it wasn't all about a month before that, you know, we've been going out there for obviously a few months leading up to the festival and wasn't till a month, that these, these puppies showed up, but, you know, at first I was a little skeptical on on whether having puppies running festival was going to be a good thing or not, but just the reaction and the way it worked out I thought it was pretty amazing. Obviously puppies bring a certain, certain light. And, you know, hard to resist and a positive feeling, and it kind of contributed in a way I wasn't really expecting or was even just a little skeptical. To begin with, but I mean, it even ended up with an adoption of one of the puppies. So, yeah. His name is Brody, You can follow him on Instagram if you want. I don't know the exact handle but maybe I'll get it for you. But yeah, so it was, it was really, really cool. You know, little nice unexpected treat that people kind of got a little extra boost from.

 

Isabel Wen 

It was great. Yeah. So, I'm gonna, I guess fall back to my standard questions of just kind of like what, what was something that kind of surprised you about putting this all together and actually happening.

 

Darren Goldberg 

I mean What surprised me was that it actually happened. More than anything, it just, you know, I didn't. I mean, from the very beginning I was figuring I didn't really have that much confidence that it was actually going to happen on those dates, you know, a lot of things kind of had to come together in a short amount of time, so that was kind of, you know the surprising thing and then, I think, you know, I knew the bands were gonna be really really happy about playing, obviously, but not kind of this level. You know, I had some bands just come up to me and at the end and kind of give me a attaboy that I wasn't really expecting more, more, but just because of how happy they were to be doing what they do, again, I knew that, I mean I'm a musician too and I want to play the shows and I get it but I think that was a little, little more than I thought it was going to be. And from from the crowd and patients too but, but I think it was a little more unexpected I think from the band side. But, so that was, that was a really nice treat.

 

Isabel Wen 

Was this like the first major show or the first show a lot of them played since the pandemic started.

 

Darren Goldberg 

Yeah I mean I'd say yeah, most of those bands had not played a show 1618 months kind of. So, I mean to where, you know, I felt bad having to cut them off. Just, just, you know, I would love to if they just kept playing and playing and playing but obviously we had curfews and that kind of thing but you could just see it in their hands, they didn't want to stop. I love this so much and, And to be back and doing it. And that's the biggest thing with musicians is what you crave off of and what your passion is is really taken away for over a year is pretty hard thing to cope with and I think a lot of bands made it through that honestly. And so the ones that kind of did, or a little more appreciative of it. I definitely saw that appreciation come out.

 

Isabel Wen 

Yeah, cuz I mean you're also a musician yourself.

 

Darren Goldberg 

Yeah and I mean I felt the same way it was different, we're putting it on but. But yeah, I mean that's, I actually you know was able to kind of like experience that with our show the music box a couple weeks later because I kind of just got to treat it a little differently, you know, that kind of getting back to what we do and what we love to do and that kind of thing is, is don't fully hate you until you step on that stage and start again. Was it emotional. I mean, yes, to a degree, I think, I mean I think it varies for different people got the most emotional guy but yeah there's emotion there. That's kind of the point I was getting to other bands I guess is that, you know, there was more emotional reaction to them, to the crowd to me, to the festival than you know maybe maybe normal, or just sometimes that gets lost sight of if you're playing every month in a club or something like that. So, I know, he had the fencing set to go away to kind of regain an appreciation of. Not that we all wanted it to go away but it, but it did, you know, maybe that that's the kind of, you know, positive side to look at all this is that it kind of regained an appreciation for, for those things.

 

Isabel Wen 

And I also want to ask about the art installations, you because you were doing live art there.

 

Darren Goldberg 

Yeah, so we had. Yes, we had some artists out there that were doing live painting. We kind of had some mini installations, little mini Burning Man type of thing with a directional pole that was, you could basically go sort out where you know the direction you came from and the distance you came from and the pole is now in my backyard. Super awesome. And it was really cool to see people take advantage of that and do it and then what it ended up being is this, this poll with the directions of where everybody came from and there was, you know, somebody from Vietnam and curious our you know a couple super places, you know, and me not knowing everybody there and then being able to go to that pool and check it out see like, where like, well, is these people some of these people came from a lot place to came from far away to be here today. We're all kind of sharing the same thing. That was really, that was really cool surprise for me because that's an idea I've had for years now and I've never really had the time and place or energy to execute that. I'm really happy that we were able to make that happen and that people, you know, took advantage of it and did it and that was kind of a real appreciation on my side what I got back from the people was, was, was that kind of saying my, my idea come to fruition and then I get to look at it every day in my yard, and bring it back next year. Yeah, bring it back next year keep growing on it or whatever that might be a staple from moving forward.

 

Isabel Wen 

And what happened to, I think there was some large art installation pieces right what happened to those.

 

Darren Goldberg 

So I still yeah the mural so we didn't murals, basically have those murals. We have a couple that finished couple squares and stuff to finish off and we're gonna set up with my, with, with Cassandra SRAM who's she was kind of our lead artists partner in the whole thing and she, we're going to kind of set up a little get together to kind of finish those off and we haven't really figured out where those are gonna end up living. Currently they're just living at my house, but, yes, we had two big large murals that she created that hopefully they can find a cool permanent home or they just, you know, end up at the festival every year and be added on to or just as kind of artwork themselves so and then we did the screwball wall with our you know our partnership with the screwball whiskey turned out really really well, building these walls that people could just express themselves on however they saw fit with spray paint, paint, glitter and items and all these kinds of things and again all the art pieces really, really came through whether it was professional artists doing their, their collaborative art where they were painting on the different canvases, or, or the ones that were interactive with the, with the patrons, I think those were all a big hit and really appreciated by the people. I was just happy to see that those were absorbed and and integrated in the festival and absorbed and appreciated and done. So you set up all these things and you can only hope that everybody kind of partakes. It really felt like a majority of the people there partook in those, those aspects.

 

Isabel Wen 

Yeah, I know that was a big part of the planning, having a community aspect to the art.

 

Darren Goldberg 

Again, it goes so you can do it all by yourself. You know I get a lot of credit to Sandra for helping bring that together. She did a great job and it was really nice.

 

Isabel Wen 

Awesome. Well, I guess. I have one more question for you, but I'm an unconventional Interviewer Do you have questions for me or do you is there something that you want to talk about that. We didn't talk about yet.

 

Darren Goldberg 

I just wish you look personal, you know, obviously personal choice and respected, but I wish she could have been there. Because you because you're involved, you're there and you're involved in beside, and to not really be there for the final product is, you know, my people voted for you and it was tough for me to because I wanted you to obviously be there. So, yeah,

 

Isabel Wen 

yeah, I am sad that I didn't get to go, I mean, I could have gone by, I hadn't been, I think I just barely gotten vaccinated and I'm even still now like It's mid July meeting with people like one on one in person and that's like me being wild.

 

Darren Goldberg 

He has different comfort levels in different places and all this stuff. You know, there's nothing to that except that you respected. It'll be there next year.

 

Isabel Wen 

Yeah, next year, I hope so. I think there's a strong, strong chance of that and so I guess that was my last question for you, it's like, you know what, what did they have to look forward to for TealPanda 2022 doing over again, making it, you know, with, with the same intentions and the same goal of making people smile. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do it at the same location for various reasons, but I'll figure that out, or we're working towards it. I'm sure we'll find a suitable location, and for anyone listening, we're looking Darren's way. And we'll leave it better than we found it. That's right. Absolutely right. Oh, cool. Well thanks for your time. Darren I'm going to stop the recording in a minute.

 

Darren Goldberg 

You're very welcome. Thank you for pressing questions it's kinda nice to relive it all in a way, so I very much enjoyed it. I look forward to seeing what you write. Thanks.